Viðbrögð við grein Evu Joly í Guardian

Hlutverk ríkissjóðs á að vera að halda upp heilbrigðisþjónustu, félagslegri þjónustu, vönduðu menntakerfi og vandaðri stjórnsýslu.

Merkilegt nokk þá eru stjórnmálaflokkar sem kenna sig við velferð og jöfnuð ekki sammála þessu. Þeir telja að ríkissjóður eigi að hafa það hlutverk að fjármagna tap sparifjáreigenda. Þeir telja að ríkisstjórn eigi að akta eins og tryggingarfélag fyrir bankanna. 

Skilaboð mín til sparifjáreiganda eru þessi: Ef þú ert ekki tilbúin til þess að taka áhættuna sem fylgir því að eiga viðskipti við bankanna geymdu þá peningana þína undir koddanum en ætlast þú ekki til þess að þú getir sótt tapið í minn vasa. 

Með því að ausa fjármunum í bankanna úr vöslum skattgreiðenda er verið að ala á ábyrgðarleysi í viðskiptum. 

Nei við Icesave

Viðbrögð við grein Evu Joly í Guardian:

Let those brave people of Iceland show the rest of us what a bunch of idiots we are. Can we have them at the front of the initial assault on the IMF and FRB please?

 Látum hið hugrakka fólk á Íslandi sýna okkur hinum hverkonar bjánar við erum. Getum við haft Íslendinga í forystu í atlögu á AGS og FRBÖ

No. Iceland should not pay it back. The state should not interfere in private banks. let them fail. Let investors lose their money. Caveat emptor. If you want no risk, stick your money under the mattress.

 Nei Ísland á ekki að borga. Ríkið á ekki að skipta sér af málefnum banka í einkaeigu. Látið þá falla. Látið fjárfesta tapa peningunum. Caveat emptor (varnarðarorð) Ef þú vilt ekki taka áhættu troddu þá peningunum þínum undir koddan. 

If all the countries stopped paying back these *debts* at the same time then what would change? Who is collecting all this money? Why are we paying again and again for things that already exist and are within our possession? Cancel all debt now, stop feeding the beast.

 Ef öll löndin hættu að greiða til baka þessar "skuldir" á sama tíma hvað myndi þá breytast? Hver eru að safna þessum peningum? Hvers vegna eru þeir að borga aftur og aftur fyrir hluti sem þegar eru til staðar og í okkar eigu? Gefið eftir allar skuldir núna, hættið að fóðra skrímslið.

Agreed. Greedy depositors were shopping around for unrealistic interest rates. Let them take the consequences.

 Samþykkt. Gráðugir innstæðueigendur voru á höttunum eftir óraunhæfum vöxtum. Látum þá taka afleiðingunum.

If it were the USA, France etc I would say they should pay. Iceland, however, while rich, is tiny. They were also, hitherto, an excellent firned and trading partner of the UK. We look like bullies right now. Of course this is not the fault of the ordinary british taxpayer but it is not the fault of the ordinary Icelandic taxpayer euither.

 

But it was a private bank, why should the people bail it out? Assets of the banks share holders should be tracked down and seized, even those one that are legally separated.

 

Call in the Board of a Bank, any bank. Ask them what THEY are going to do to solve the problems THEIR industry have caused. They will inevitably answer: "Nothing!" Immediately withdraw the taxpayer guarantee. Watch bank go tits up in 24 hours. You only need do it once, to one bank. Highly worthwhile.

 

Wow, a country has actually allowed a vote on this stitch up? A no vote could force into public debate the root of the problem: private interests dictate the creation and control of the money supply for their own profit when (and this should be obvious, that it isn't shows how far removed from reality we have become), the monetary system should be a social service to facilitate them for the good of all.

There's hope for the world yet.

 

Actually I would like to see Iceland default just to see what would happen. Maybe they really could run an economy based on bartering cod and mutton for diesel. It would provide a valuable lesson for us all.

 

If anyone should pay the money back it's the Labour party. They were the ones who encouraged councils to bank money in Iceland. Even just a few months before the crash.

 

Anyone who deposited money into the jurisdiction of a country with a population, and an economy, the size of Coventry was an idiot. However, Iceland's economy soared on the back of it, and the idea that those interest rates were unsustainable didn't appear to occur to the town council-standard politicians (what do you expect? 300 000 is an electorate smaller than most local councils) and the Icelandic regulators.

 

This should be a no vote. Icesave had completely unrealistic interest rates and if greedy investors didn't bother checking the realities, THEY should take the losses,not the tax payers of Iceland. If the British and Dutch Governments want to complain, they can chase the owners and shareholders of Icesave, whose assets should be sold off to pay the banks debts and liabiltiies. If they can't or wont chase the shareholders and senior management of Icesave because they are all in the same gang, then it's tough.

 

I hope the Icelandic people vote no. Why should the tax payer guarantee private investment, we have seen here in the UK the absolute contempt that bankers have shown to bailouts by the taxpayer. The bailout by the UK government of our banks should be seen as a near criminal waste of taxpayers’ money. A far cheap way would have been to give every UK citizen a £1 million pound bung, cost around £69 million, what a boost to the economy that would have been instead of lining the pockets of the shareholders and directors. Then again they might have been a mass exodus to somewhere like Poland.

 

One of the greatest mistakes in the UK has been the unrentless ability of people to access credit, with mortgages being handed out at 100% and 3 times the income anybody with an ounce of common sense could see that the bubble would burst. Greed has become the primary occupation of the majority of the UK population, 'getting on the property market' 'disposable income' all come to mind and when it all goes tits up we have people like Vania that expect their government, which is utimately the people, to bailout those that have had their noses in the trough without a thought of the consequenses. Prehaps the demise of RBS would have been the wake up call that the UK population needed, we are slowly sinking, rising fuel and food costs, cuts to basic services, job losses wil alll take years if every to turn around so bailing out banks that have quickly returned to the practices that nearly brought them and the country down has not been a success.

 

I'm all for the Icelandic to refuse to pay these debts. After all, when private entrepreneurs raise huge amounts of credit in order to speculate and cream off millions for themselves, this has nothing to do with the populations of the countries in which they operate.

 

However, it has all to do with how the financial markets in those countries are run, and the government which allows it to happen (often run by the same people). Trying to pass their debts onto the unfortunate people who are left to carry the can, and who could not have done anything to prevent the situation arising, is just not right. By making a stand, it might just concentrate the minds of the international banking community to do something about the out of control money markets that are sticking two fingers up to the rest of us. The people of Greece, Ireland and now Portugal are all in the same boat.

 

Oh, and I just want to point out. The finance industry, much of which is back on its feet, are being complete arseholes over this. Paying themselves enormous bonuses while Iceland and the UK are forced into the appalling position of squabbling over the crumbs under their table.

 

I say:

Icelanders:

Get out the pitchforks ! Light the bonfires ! You have nothing to lose but the crooks in your lands !

And go back to fishing, tourism, and trying to leave the whales alone. But pay back ? Never, you must be joking - it's not them what nicked anything.

 

I find capitalists a marvelous breed, they believe in the rewards when they take risks that come off but don't believe they should feel the pain when their risks fail. It is about time someone said to the capitalists that lose "You're a capitalist stupid!"" Let's hope the Icelanders refuse to pay for the debts of failed capitalists.

 

Let's hope that the people of Iceland tell their government to go and eat fecking cake, and we should follow their example. The governments of the UK and Holland had no business reimbursing the greedy speculating fucktards in the first place, did nobody learn anything from the BCCI scandal? high interest indicates risk if you don't accept this risk then stick yer cash under the mattrass.

 

They certainly were greedy speculating fucktards. If they had done a bit more than google best interest rates when looking to stash their nest eggs they would have seen that Icesave was a risky venture. The fact that our governments don't do enough due diligence when they offer blanket guarantees that come from the pockets of people on PAYE is the reason for these events. The whole deposit guarantee system that allows high worth individuals to plank their cash in small tranches here and there with the burden of risk carried by the taxpayer is just another example of privatisng bunce and socialising risk.

 

Apologies to anyone who may have pointed this out, but Eva Joly is correct that this claim has a dubious legal basis - albeit she oversimplifies the whole issue. The facts are that Icelandic depositors were indeed bailed out, as per their depositor protection scheme, but G Brown Esq went beyond legal requirements for UK depositors (though not, sadly, for Isle of Man or Channel Island depositors). Icesave, if not the other institutions, operated in the UK under a so-called "passport" scheme whereby deposits were protected but to a lesser European limit than the UK arrangement. I could write a book about who is to blame for the whole mess, but both the UK regulators and Brown himself should bear much more responsibility than is generally recognised. So it's very rich for the UK to demand repayment of huge amounts which they channelled to UK residents for purely political - not legal - reasons. I say this as one who lost out big time from the Icelandic crash - as a depositor not an investor. For the ignorant amongst you, there is, or should be, a big difference between the two.

 

The banking sector is a great threat to the proper economy. Reject this Iceland , there is no reason you should pay , these banksters should be in prison.

 

Most Icelanders did not benefit from Icesave and other financial products of their banks. It was a small elite who benefitted - a small elite who should be identified with the rest of the global banking elite rather than with other Icelanders. The living standards of Icelanders were high in the last decade or so for two main reasons:

1) They work hard - long hours and often multiple jobs.

2) They have high personal debt and are big users of Visa.

Icelanders will pay off their own personal debt. But the majority of Icelanders have no moral responsibility for the Icesave debt. They should stand firm and refuse to be bullied into taking on liability.

I'm with you Iceland. Stay Independent People. There's none cooler than Thule.

 

Domino of financial slavery coming to Europe.

 

Óvíst hvort kjósa þyrfti

Athugasemdir

[Friðrik Hansen Guðmundsson, 8.4.2011 kl. 17:23]

Hann fer nú alveg á kostum þessi :)

[Jakobína Ingunn Ólafsdóttir, 8.4.2011 kl. 17:27]

Já það fer lítið fyrir hugsjónum á þeim bænum

[Jóhann Elíasson, 8.4.2011 kl. 17:42]

Ég held að það sé nokkuð ljóst að maðurinn á þó nokkuð langt í að kunna að skammast sín..